Written by The aerial photos generated a lot of comments, as many people recognized the photographer took them from Charlie Conners helicopter. Apparently the helicopter, which is stationed at a waterfront home on Lake Washington, has a few Kennydale residents upset.
Meanwhile, Mr. Conners seems to have a large group of residents supporting his right to keep his helicopter, including his immediate neighbors and many other in his neighborhood (they have signed a petition in support.)
Here is a comment I just received with a link to more background information in the Business Journal.
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(Anonymous) on November 14th, 2007 05:32 pm (local)
IP Address:(65.122.177.82)
Here is an article and photo of Conner and his chopper in his Kennydale backyard (click on the photo for a bigger copy):
http://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2007/07/23/story16.html
Click here to see the story
Helicopter
How many separate residences are represented on the petition and where can someone find a copy of this signed petition?
There are now 24 comments on Randy’s previous helicopter thread on this blog, most about Conner’s chopper. Here’s the link to those entries before they roll out of sight onto a second page of this blog:
http://randycorman.livejournal.com/145067.html
How many is “many others in his neighborhood” on a petition of support for his backyard helicopter? His rich neighbor buddies alongside him on the lake will support him of course…they all stick together.
Randy – I’m a little concerned about how you framed the issue above. You talk about “a few Kennydale residents upset” versus “a large group of residents” who support him and have signed a petition. That may well not be the situation.
Also, you talk of “his right to keep his helicopter” – I think we would not question his right to keep his helicopter…at the airport where it belongs. But do you honestly think Renton should start allowing helicopter pads in residential neighborhoods? Renton has noise codes for much more benign uses, yet nothing for aircraft in a backyard.
I can’t imagine that if you took a poll of Renton residents that the majority would say they want helicopters based in their neighbors backyards.
Come to think of it, Conner has no “right to keep his helicopter” in his backyard – he can ask permission from the city to keep it there. The neighborhood has a right to protect itself from extreme noise sources caused by others.
Take it easy, folks. When you find out the FAA requirements, you’ll also find there are VERY few properties in Renton that would allow private aircraft. Mr. Conner may own 1 of the properties that could accomadate such, but since he’s a developer, he no doubt knew it would work. Does the neighbor 2 doors down own a piece of property that would allow a private aircraft? That would certainly elevate the value of the property.
Renton is not going to allow residential neighborhoods to become heliports or seaplane bases. Let’s get all the facts.
Renton has no ordinance regarding helicopters – other cities do. Renton is behind the curve on this one, and needs an ordinance in place so neighbors don’t have to band together to keep their neighborhoods quiet when this sort of thing happens.
Why don’t you share the FAA requirements that you say you have, to prove your point – don’t just refer to them. As long as the landowner grants permission, the FAA does not get involved – it’s a city matter.
You say waterfront property values are up because they may allow helipads, but then we should not worry because “Renton is not going to allow residential neighborhoods to become heliports.” That’s a contradiction.
The City isn’t going to allow it? They are about to with Connner, and who will be next?
And what good is increased property value, when your quality of life goes down from disturbances next door? Such disturbances usually drive values down, not up.
It is interesting to me how many comments this topic is generating.
Here is a bit more information for you to consider and comment on.
My understanding is that Renton has no laws on the books which expressly either allow or disallow private helicopter ports in residential neighborhoods. And there are no state laws which cover this topic either. There is of course federal law, which is enforced by FAA. So the city is engaged in interpreting/extrapolating the implications of other city laws, and the private residential heliport is meanwhile being managed consistent with FAA requirements.
Under Federal rules, helicopters can’t be permanently based such that they would take off over houses, so the only homes eligible are probably right on the lake. And the lot has to have at least 70 to 80 feet of lake frontage. which limits the number of possible helicopter sites to less than a dozen in Renton.
Of the dozen lots, it’s hard to imagine more than one or two having a helicopter pilot living in them, who wants to spend the money to have a helicopter based at home.
An internet search reveals that Hunts Point, the most opulent neighborhood in the Seattle area (and perhaps in the entire world since Bill Gates lives there) allows helicopters at lakefront lots if they conform to FAA requirements (The way Charlie Conner’s helicopter does. I understand that a few of the homes in Hunts Point have included this.
When I first heard about this controversy, I was interested in what Mr. Conners’ immediate neighbors had to say. In fact, I was wondering if in addition to noise they would be concerned about wind blowing their lawn furniture into the lake.
As it turns out, his immediate neighbors have not objected, and one of them even circulated a petition in support of his being allowed to keep it. (I have not see it yet, but I was told that 30 or more people signed it so far) I don’t understand all of the motivations involved in this dispute, but I can imagine there is some concern that if government clamps down on helicopters, then seaplanes might be next. Or, some of his neighbors might just think it is pretty cool to see the helicopter. Or they may feel that it is the mark of Renton lifting itself (excuse the pun) from it’s blue collar roots, and being more like Hunts Point.
Clearly, there are some that don’t like it.
I don’t personally see the helicopter, or hear it, so I am only approaching this as an elected representative trying to balance the desires of the community and property rights on both sides of the issue. And just so you don’t feel you need to ask, Mr. Conners and I barely know each other, and he’s never supported any of my campaigns (nor have I asked him to.) I’m glad he is doing a good job with his home project on the lake front, but he is not getting any special privileges for it. He is complying with the same codes we all comply with, but he happens to be in a unique situation because he is a licensed helicopter pilot, who owns his own helicopter, with a large lot, on the lake shore.
Helicopter
Does anyone know where Charlie Conner parked his helicopter before he moved to his residence in Renton? Did he park it at an airport? Or did he have it in his yard at his old residence? If he didn’t park it in his yard, why?
Re: Helicopter
I have heard he had a place on Lake Sammamish
Re: Helicopter
Yep, here it is:
http://www.fboweb.com/fb40/airport/92WA.html
Conner heliport in Kennydale
Homeowners on and near the lake in Kennydale experience many noises each day such as Boeing engine tests, motor boats, jet skis, trains, seaplanes, small planes, helicopters and jets at the airport, fishing tournament starts, fireworks, and the Blue Angels. We also share the neighborhood with plenty of bicylces, joggers and walkers, park visitors, as well as I-405 activity. This action is part of living in convenient and urban Kennydale by the lake.
I think we all know that very few other homeowners, if any, will be licensed and own a personal seaplane or helicopter. I welcome Mr. Conner to Kennydale and to his hometown of Renton.
Re: Conner heliport in Kennydale
You make a good point – we already have enough noise, so why should a helicopter be based in the heart of our neighborhood when the airport is only one mile away? Those other noises are not nearly so close to our homes as his helicopter is, when he is under power taking off and landing and flies low in and out of our neighborhood. He is of course welcome in our neighborhood, but his helicopter is not – why should he be granted permission to diminish our quality of life, when there is no pressing need for his private heliport with an airport so close by?
Re: Conner heliport in Kennydale
“Few other homeowners” will want to do the same thing? That leaves the door open to more after Conner gets his. Without an ordinance on the books in Renton, and with his heliport as a precedent, it will be difficult for Renton to manage this situation going forward (and continue to pit homeowner against homeowner). We have an airport, so why should helicopters be allowed in residential zones at all? Just because some rich guy says it’s convenient not to have to deal with airports, and the neighborhood be damned? Other cities that don’t even have airports ban private heliports entirely – does Renton deserve less?
Helicopter
Exactly what are the property requirements in Renton that would allow/accomodate a private aircraft? Could the City please provide some facts here on this?
No special rules for ‘special’ people.
Just because someone spreads his money around, doesn’t mean we should fall over ourselves like little toadies to please our local developer.
Allowing helicopters in a residential zone is just as stupid as allowing a home to be built in the center of the Renton airport runway.
We have zoning for a reason.
We have an airport for a reason.
We have residential zoning for a reason.
Get the laws on the books and get this thing out of here – before someone takes the law into their own hands.
Good greif..
Randy, you’re so reasonable that it amazes me.
Perhaps a middle ground would be to allow the helicopters provided that the owners agreed to certain restrictions as to the amount of times that they could fly per week and only during daylight hours etc, and especially the type of copter.
Some copters have a pleasing sound, while other beat the air into submission – so if Charlie has bought a nicer one that is more compatible with the neighborhood, perhaps why his immediate neighbors don’t seem to mind.
Re: Good greif..
Thanks for the compliment
Someone above asked for some reference materials.
here is a link to some industry provided material, which of course will carry some bias toward allowing helicopters, but is informative nonetheless
…and here is the FAA guidance for applying for your very own heliport, should you be interested and meet the FAA clearance and other requirements
Re: Good greif..
Conner had his last private heliport on Lake Sammamish, in the City of Issaquah. They have a helipad code (note that “C” forbids flying over residential areas):
18.07.560 Heliports.
Proposals for heliports shall be processed as established by the Table of Permitted Land Uses (IMC 18.06.130). The following approval criteria shall be required to approve applications for all heliports, including hospital transport or business/public use transport, as an accessory use:
A. Type of Aircraft: The type of aircraft permitted to land at an approved heliport, the number of daily takeoffs, and hours of operation shall not adversely affect the adjacent area or the surrounding community;
B. Approach and Departure Paths: Approach and departure paths shall be obstruction free and environmentally critical areas shall not be adversely affected. In addition, flight paths and altitude requirements shall be required to minimize noise and echoing within the Issaquah valley;
C. No Flight over Residentially Zoned Areas: A heliport site must have flight path access directly to the interstate highway system which does not require flight over any residentially zoned properties;
D. FAA Review: All applications to construct a heliport must include the results of the appropriate Federal Aviation Administration review. A determination of negative impact on navigable airspace by the FAA will result in denial of a City Land Use Permit, unless the applicant agrees to comply with the recommendations to mitigate such impacts. The mitigating measures shall be made conditions of the City’s Land Use Permit;
E. Noise Reduction Program: The facility will commit to participate in a voluntary noise reduction program;
F. Primary Surface: The heliport primary surface shall have a level grade and dust-proof surface;
G. Public Use Heliports: Public use heliports shall be marked in accordance with FAA recommendations and shall follow stricter regulations and enforcement regarding:
1. Traffic patterns over freeway paths only, with limited hours of operation – use at night, if permitted, shall be limited;
2. Overflying provisions;
3. Noise control (for immediate area and entire valley);
4. Altitude restrictions that do not permit low flying over the City, except over freeway paths;
H. Lighting: All heliports intended to accommodate night landings shall be lighted in accordance with FAA recommendations;
I. Physical Constraints: Access to heliport landing areas, except water surfaces, shall be controlled by physical restraints. If fences, walls or parapets are used for access control, the minimum height shall be forty-two (42) inches;
J. Landing Areas: Heliport landing areas shall be at least 1.5 times the overall length of the largest helicopter expected to use the facility;
K. Touchdown Pads: Touchdown pads shall have a dimension equal to the rotor diameter of the largest helicopter expected to operate from the facility;
L. Heliport Approach Surface: Each helicopter landing area shall have at least one (1) obstruction-free heliport approach path conforming to the definition of “heliport approach surfaces;”
M. No Obstructions: No obstructions, natural or manmade, will be permitted within the heliport primary surface, heliport approach surfaces, or heliport transition surfaces;
N. Signage: All approaches to helicopter operation areas will have conspicuous signs notifying approaching persons; and
O. Modifications: These requirements may be modified in special circumstances upon written technical evaluation and recommendation of the nearest FAA Airport District Office, or Washington State Department of Transportation, Division of Aeronautics Office. (Ord. 2108 § 7.5.9, 1996).
Re: Good greif..
Can someone cut and paste the Renton code?
Re: Good greif..
I’ll post whatever I can find. I know we don’t have anything like the Issaquah code. I think all we have are some restrictions for commercial heliports in business districts. Most of our city laws are still not available online though (yep, behind the curve in this area), so I’ll have to try to get it tomorrow.
Re: Good greif..
Someone posted on the other link that there had been a helipad on the water by Bryn Mawr. Can someone provide details on this? Who owned it? When was it last in use? Why isn’t it used now? Actual address location?
Renton Municipal Code
The city web site links to this site for the RMC…
http://www.codepublishing.com/wa/renton/
You’ll have to do the work to search for the subject matter you’re looking for…
Re: Renton Municipal Code
Can someone from the City of Renton make the comparable information to what was posted from the City of Issaquah readily available on this site? I’m sure one of our employees at the city can help.
Re: Pleasing Sound
WHAT!!!!????
connor’s helipad
Just an update. The hearing at City hall Renton has been set now for FEB 19th at 9.00 a.m.We need to get motivated as this will be the ONLY chance for residents to voice their opinions about this matter!!!!It is a very inconvenient time as many people have to go to work! So if you can’t make it then PLEASE write a brief note to MR KAUFMAN the hearing examiner, stating your views,and mail it to City Hall. A note has far more clout than a petition with a bunch of names on it, which Conner has done .There will be a meeting of the Kennydale neighborhood late Jan and we need to get this matter on the Agenda.Joanie rosling
Re: connor’s helipad
UPDATE:
The Planning Commission is holding a hearing tomorrow night (Wednesday 1/23 at 6 PM sharp), wherein the City is proposing a new ordinance to allow heliports on waterfront lots in R-8 zones. There are almost no conditions in the ordinance (only one helicopter, and follow FAA reg’s – which don’t really limit altitude or noise). Only an administrative approval will be required for the permit (no hearing examiner process). The staff report is weak – it only contains the info provided by Conner (e.g. Hunts Point and Redmond allow them, but no mention of all the other cities that forbid them or place conditions/restrictions if they do allow them). There should at least be a condition that forbids flying over Renton neighborhoods, and keeps the heliport operations over the lake. Issaquah has this condition – why not Renton?
Re: connor’s helipad
Mercer Islanders don’t want Mr. Connor to fly his helicopter over the island either. There was a low flying helicopter over Mercer Island on Jan. 30, flying south towards Renton. It was dark in color and shaped like a Bell helicopter. I don’t know if it was Mr. Connor’s helicopter, but a noise complaint was filed with the airport due to its low overflight.
Helicopter is back
The Helicopter just finished waking up the entire neighborhood, I heard a couple of home alarms go off. This is has got to stop, not during the week when most people have to get up early in the morning.